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TOPIC: RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear - NON RV Brand

RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear - NON RV Brand 5 months 1 day ago #1

Some dealerships (The article is not specific to any one RV brand) deliberately undersizing the running gear (i.e, I would suggest anyone with 7000 lb axles...).

Read this interesting article posted on RV Travel (It is the last article on the page):

rvtravel.com/the-readers-write-no-frills...arking-on-the-cheap/

Apparently, I am not the only one noticing this "phenomenon"...

A separate article but along the same lines...Buyer beware...

rvtravel.com/fulltime-rving-will-your-rig-haul-the-weight/

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Last Edit: by GipCTravelers.

RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear 5 months 1 day ago #2

You are reading to much into this b.s.. the dealers have no choice into what running gear comes with a trailer the manufacture does. They may pull the weight stickers so they can sell to a 1/2 Ton owner but that is it. All axles as well as all types of equipment , chains, slings, tires etc have a built in safety factor of usually 5-1. That means if you are running 7k axles at 7000lbs they will handle it. There are definitely short comings in what the rv industry is is installing on these units but legally they are installng the bare minimum that will keep them out of a lawsuit. What i also see is that we have a lot of chicken Littles on these forums that think the sky is falling. Because someone has a spring pack let go or an axle fail does not mean they are all bad. When you look at the industry as a whole, quality has definitely diminished, bit when you look at the overall numbers of units sold the complaints are a very small percentage
Respectively
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Woody
Last Edit: by Shane Wood.

RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear 5 months 1 day ago #3

Can we agree to disagree? You have some valid points, but, I'll have to disagree to an extent.

Dealerships "order" what they want as "Spec" units on their lot. Just like stick-and-brick homes. They are out for profit. They will do what it takes and prey on the general public. Most individuals would not have a clue about what they buy except that it is pretty. Here is a prime example...We were at a dealership today browsing and we were having a conversation with a couple in that exact position. They were in their 50's for sure but had no idea what to look for. I gave them a run-down and now they know what to look for.

I won't disagree that there are some honest dealerships out there for sure. But equally, there are dishonest dealerships as well. I can easily see this happening. When we got our unit, the "sticker" we had was no where near the weight rating that should have been on here. It wasn't until I had the unit weighed (3 times) to verify the correct weight empty. It was one reason we moved to the 8000 lb axles. But the frame is still the limiting factor...

The ONLY way to ensure you get what you want is to order direct from the factory (or thru the dealership). Even then, for someone that knows nothing about RV's, it's still buyer beware.

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RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear 5 months 15 hours ago #4

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First, I suggest that when posting on a public forum we need to be cognisant of the potential legal ramifications of our contributions.

Personally I am very troubled by the opening statement in the original post, as I concur with Shane that dealers have no responsibility with design engineering, other than ordering base units and options from the manufacturer. I cannot envisage anyway that factual justification can be provided to substantiate this statement.

With respect to 7,000 lb axles, we have them and frankly we are happy. My understanding is 7,000 lbs is a Safe Working Load (SWL), with a factor of safety used to reduce this from the breaking load. In the marine industry we used factors of safety ranging between 3 and 10. I have personally tested many cranes, lifts etc at up to twice the SWL, every 5 years with no damage.

Using the 7,000 lb axles, yes we are close to the SWL, but we are below SWL on each tire. Going to 8K axles may reduce the percentage load, but it most likely results in a stiffer ride. Personally, I am good with a higher percentage load for a potential softer ride. I note that this is based on a 36FL, and that this floor plan has different weights and distributions from other floor plans.

I note this is now a moot point, as all new Redwoods come with 8K axles as standard. I also believe, that regardless of what we purchase, we are responsible for buyer beware. In this regard, our forum can greatly assist future owners, but we must ensure content is factual or identified as personal opinion. The included articles are great reading and I appreciate them, as I don't subscribe to this publication
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RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear 5 months 11 hours ago #5

Good Morning Oriana,

It is now a fact that Redwood now puts the 8000 lb axles on. But not in previous year models (also fact). And although products build in "safety margins", they are not there for us to legally exceed (fact).

Although not an apple to apple comparison, OH cranes are rated. If an OH crane is rated for 5,000 lbs and one exceeds that rating and OSHA (in the US) gets involved due an accident, I assure you that there are consequences for exceeding that rating (fact). IMHO, insurance companies will be looking for the same thing. We have no rights to deliberately exceed ratings (Opinion at the moment - yet to be personally tested but I'll look for examples on the web).

The purpose of this post is to share with those the possibilities from unscrupulous dealers and for things to be looking for whether they are buying or already have this situation (like us - factual).

I don't mind sharing good things as they happen or methods for repair (I seem to be getting experience fixing and rebuilding everything). But equally, I don't mind sharing the bad. I have plenty of examples with our lemon (fact). And also factual, I tried to involve Redwood in fixing the issues to which there was no success.

My next post will be on delamination taking place on our 3.5 year old rig...Yet another expensive fix coming up...

My apologies if this comes off offensive. Its not meant to be. I'm just clarifying now to make sure there is no misunderstanding. I appreciate what you do for the ROG. I appreciate hearing fro others about their problems and fixes. If I had a close relationship (as a first hand owner) with Redwood, maybe it would be different (I'm not implying anything here with members of the ROG). But when you're a second hand owner (regardless of the fact that we purchased the rig 2nd hand from the previous owner that only had it three months - any warranty is not transferable apparently regardless how new it might be), you are treated like a 3rd class passenger.

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Last Edit: by GipCTravelers.

RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear 5 months 9 hours ago #6

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GipCTravelers, sure sounds like you have a "hate on" for Redwood.

In terms of axle/tire ratings, it's my opinion that Redwood is within the limits as required for safety as they have lots of liability on the line, from owners and TSB in the US and Transport Canada. I've seen this with other RV manufacturers, my previous RV was a Glendale Titanium, Glendale put a few thousand units together with wheel rims with the wrong offset for the Mor_Ryde never lube bearings. It was unclear whether it was Glendale or Mor-Ryde that got it wrong, but it bankrupted Glendale in the end.

Also, bear in mind the the newer Redwoods are heavier than the older ones, the heavier running gear is probably required.
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RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear 5 months 7 hours ago #7

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Gip....
We also have 7,000 lb. axels and no problems here and springs are perfect. Personally I would never waist my money to only move up to 8,000 lb axels. I would much rather go to the IS instead of adding only 2,000 difference with springs. The new units are heavier and that is one of the reasons they went to 8k. If RW really wanted to step up, they would offer IS as an option.
Redwood has issues but no difference then any other RV company out there! We just happen to own Redwoods.
Some of the research listed here sounds like it comes from those gossip magazines with no facts to back it up!
If I was a new owner and read some of these posts I would be totally scared away!! That is not what we want here in my opinion!

Steve
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RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear 5 months 7 hours ago #8

I agree with all the above Gregg,
Lately it seams like your motives are to SCARE away possible new members and owners.. I would ask that you do some soul searching, and possibley get out of the RW, you may be a happier person. That my not sit well with you, but frankly its getting old reading all your complaints..
This recent post takes the cake
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RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear 5 months 6 hours ago #9

I agree, it sounds a bit like sour grapes that because you probably saved $$$ purchasing second hand & didn't get a warranty, for that I'm sorry, but you most likely knew that when buying.
I totally agree that there's NO QC in the rv industry, but it's not likely to change. Scaring folks away from RWs wiil only hurt us that own them & cause them to buy another brand which could be even worse, they ALL have NO QC. Yes they could spend more money, but that means absolutely nothing, they're all built by the same people that have no reason to take pride in job they do.
You keep referencing the auto industry & regulations, but in my opinion that would only drive the prices up (like autos), automate the assembly line (like auto), & put lots of people out of a job (line autos).
In my opinion the RWs are one of the best on the market & would order another one if I decided to trade.
I have close to 60k on my 7k axles & other than adding heavy shackles with wet bolts (to replace plastic bushings, nothing broken) & upgrading to disc brakes (after 60k mikes on the drum brakes, that still worked just worn) I've had absolutely no problems with suspension, fulltiming with 16.5k+ on the trailer.
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RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear - NON RV Brand 5 months 3 hours ago #10

I had 8K axles on our Redwood and it gave a nice GVWR, but after a dozens CAT scales, my axles never saw anything close to even 7K. Totally loaded with gear, food, and full fresh water I only saw 12,900 lbs on the axles which is 6,450 lbs per axle loaded.

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2014 36RL (Sold) - Brad, Dory & Sarah

RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear - NON RV Brand 4 months 4 weeks ago #11

Steve,
You referenced the IS. Does that increase the weight limits?

We are close on weights. We have talked about going to 8K axles, just trying to decide.

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George & Lisa

RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear - NON RV Brand 4 months 4 weeks ago #12

I MAY BE WRONG here... But I believe that it WILL increase your limits, but will not legally increase your GVW... If I am saying that properly... The GVW is based on many factors, a couple are the tires, and suspension... Up grade those, and that should allow more cargo..

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RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear - NON RV Brand 4 months 4 weeks ago #13

As Joe said, other limiting factors are tire load ratings, pin box rating, etc, but in general if you upgrade the axle rating and the tires are at least load range G tires, your carry capacity increases.

Getting the unit titled with a higher GVWR is a different story. Typically only the manufacturer can provide the titled GVWR of the vehicle based on factory installed equipment and engineering calculations. What you add or change afterwards is for peace of mind, but not a documented increase in GVWR on the title or VIN sticker.

At one time, Lazy Days in Florida said they could take my F350 SRW and re-spring it to make it have a higher GVWR and get it legally re-stickered in the door of the truck. I never pursued it, as it sounded kind of incredible.
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2014 36RL (Sold) - Brad, Dory & Sarah
Last Edit: by atom ant.

RV Travel - Undersized Running Gear - NON RV Brand 4 months 4 weeks ago #14

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Hi everyone and good morning.......

If I remember right it all has to do with that little sticker stating the GVW weight from the manufacturer. One would have to have that changed to legally be able to haul more than the total limit stated.

You know I joined this group to gather knowledge about the brand we all either love or hate. GipC to me in this post has brought up a good point about the industry as a whole. How can these manufacturers get away with half the things they do just to save a buck is beyond me. IMHO after over 50 years being around about every type of RV from the 60's 16 ft Trail Blazer and the 15 plus I have actually lived around since. It seems that the quality has continued to deteriorate to the point that I believe that the industry does need some better accountability.

Gip has gone through what I went through with my last 3400RL. My problems started 2 weeks out of the factory and continued the down hill slide through out the life of our ownership. Now we all purchased our RW's because of the presentation of either the 'full time' thought plus the enticing beauty of each of the models that fit our exact need. Gip has gone through a nightmare of a time because why? A very unregulated don't give a crap about the customer industry. As these manufacturers continue to merge and become one parent company that has umpteen AVP levels of management that do not produce one dime of revenue, but make great friends at management party. Well what can you say all that money has to come from some where and we all know there is a very fine line between making those numbers work and keeping the customer happy.

I like Gip purchased my slightly used RW because after spending full new negotiated price on the special ordered 3400RL and getting burned. It just didn't make sense to spend all that extra cash for a crappy have to argue about every little thing the dealer and manufacturer problem it has. I also came into this RW knowing that Thor industries has always had a quality problem since I first heard of them back in the 70's. Seeing their way of lacking quality, time and time again, while standing next to my late Father "RIP 95" as he talked with many disgruntled owners it was then in my early teens it started to show a trend to me about what Thor was doing to their customers.

A couple of things come to mind that bother me with the building of our RW's that should be considered. How can a company show pictures in advertising brochures that blatantly lie about the construction? i.e. Front cap insulation. 2. These rigs were built with the intent of capturing the full time customer spending about 30 grand more to ensure they had a RV that could handle the pressures of time the weekend units could not. Yet we continue to see things like suspension and brakes being substandard to what the weight of these "Full time" units really need.

The point is we all face problems here Gip just made the point of just how bad the industry has become building all RV's. It doesn't matter what brand one has it is going to have problems some of them terrible based on don't give a crap quality control issues not being dealt with. What is hard to swallow is we all come into these purchases with a dream and a plan for that dream and some of those dreams get shattered along the way. Why because what we purchased with our hard earned cash was not in any way the truth.

To me honesty is the ultimate show of integrity........ Something the RV manufactures for the most part forgot.

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